Dmitri
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Post by Dmitri on Jun 26, 2009 9:07:18 GMT -5
Makes sense to me, Tomas - Rapid Shot works as it is written with stuff other than a bow, like a dagger or what not. I can't see any reason not to allow this, since it seems to follow both the written rules and the intent of the writers as well.
I had thought about doing this with a dagger thrower at some point - issue becomes DR for him, but the Javelin guy wouldn't deal with this as much.
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Post by grond on Jun 26, 2009 17:38:52 GMT -5
Absolutely. I played a game with an ax slinger once. He carried enough throwing axes to make a full round attack with them, and then he had a great axe for melee. His first round unloaded axes like a machine gun, and his second round he used the axe against the first person to close with him. Very effective, as every round is a full attack action.
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Post by grond on Jun 26, 2009 17:42:34 GMT -5
OK, here's one to mull over, can you use 2 weapon fighting, a light throwing weapon in each hand and rapid shot in conjunction. I'd like a weigh in on if the rules allow it, and also if reason should allow it.
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Post by Tomas on Jun 26, 2009 18:09:51 GMT -5
I assume without quickdraw he would throw one weapon from each hand. As a DM I think I would allow it. I would even consider not applying the 2 weapon fighting modifier to the "on-hand" throw. Thus -2/-4 for the attack. Though you would need quickdraw to take advantage of multiple attacks. Also it would be cool to watch in a movie Tom
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Post by grond on Jun 26, 2009 23:16:14 GMT -5
Oh, absolutely needs quickdraw. I also wouldn't gripe about dealing with a total of -4 penalty for it. This concept seems so feat intensive that it would almost have to be a fighter. He could take weapon focus feats and point blank shot. At higher levels he would only take a net -1 over all on all of the attacks, within 30 feet, and have a damage bonus of +5 with specialization feats. Of course, this fighter would need a rather sturdy mule to follow him around with all of the axes or daggers or light hammers or whatever he throws. He would look fairly bizarre.
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Dmitri
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Post by Dmitri on Jun 27, 2009 8:11:07 GMT -5
I say no - coupla issues.
First, the possibilities are too huge. You get the whole way down the TWF line, add Rapid Shot, add Haste (boots are cheap), get into the Master Thrower PrC... too many ways to add attacks. I would rule it a 1 or the other kind of thing - though with the capstone ability of Master Thrower, the TWFing line taken the whole way might make more sense.
Secondly, it seems to me that Rapid Shot replaces your full round attack action with a Rapid Shot Attack Action. Likewise, it seems to me that TWFing replaces a full attack action with a TWFing Attack Action. This is why none of it works with something like Whirlwind Attack. Anyway, I don't think you can use them together, much like you can't use Manyshot and Rapid Shot at the same time.
But this is just a guess. I am extrapolating pretty hard here.
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Post by Tomas on Jun 27, 2009 10:17:03 GMT -5
I really think the point Nick made about ammunition is what makes it really a non-starter.
Tom
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Dmitri
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Post by Dmitri on Jun 27, 2009 10:20:42 GMT -5
Yea - I was extrapolating it out with something like daggers, where you could do a bandolier or something. Throwing makes for a cool idea, but not often as a primary attack method unless you get a returner, or run the scout out of complete adventurer with skirmish damage.
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Tai Shar Shaidar
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Post by Tai Shar Shaidar on Jun 27, 2009 16:37:10 GMT -5
Two-Weapon fighting is a special option that can be used with ranged thrown weapons, if both are light as in the case of daggers, then you take a -2 penalty to all your attacks. This takes a full round action, and assumes that you have the two weapon fighting feat. Now since the two-weapon fighting is a full attack action then rapid shoot stacks given you one extra attack at your highest base attack bonus. All of his attacks would then be at a -4 penalty. So a level 20 fighter with 18 strength Dextarity , the 2 weapon fighting chain, quickdraw, and rapid shot would get +20/ +20/ +20/ +15/ +15/ +10/ +10/ +5.
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Post by grond on Jun 27, 2009 21:28:00 GMT -5
Tai probably means dex of 18, to put all of the attacks at those bonuses. If that is all correct regarding how those 2 options work together, then the major stumbling block is Dmitri's point about overcoming DR, and the point of carrying ammo. Improved critical with daggers leaves the level 20 the character 8 attacks, each with a chance of criting, for a chance of doing 18-24 damage assuming a strength boosting item and specialization feats. Of course I think the point of this thread is to decide if it does work, not how well.
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Dmitri
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Post by Dmitri on Aug 21, 2009 15:02:51 GMT -5
Question - a zombie (as the template) can only make a standard action or a move action in a round, correct? So... if this was applied to an animal or something with multiple natural attacks, would it only ever be able to use one of them per round?
Like something that naturally has claw/claw/bite - if zombified, would it only be able to "claw" or "bite", but never "claw/claw/bite" again?
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Post by grond on Aug 21, 2009 15:59:36 GMT -5
I think so, look at the zombie wyvern as an example since it has claws bite and sting for attack option pre-zombie.
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Post by grond on Aug 22, 2009 12:30:07 GMT -5
Question, could you set a contingency to activate when you cast another spell? Example; the spell rage, unless I'm wrong, prevents a caster from being able to cast, but it gives a moral bonus to strength, while Tenser's Transformation also inhibits casting, but give an enhancement to strength, so the bonus types stack but the same caster could never make him or her self the beneficiary of both, without contingency. To clarify, I am referring to the spell, Contingency.
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Dmitri
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Post by Dmitri on Aug 22, 2009 13:23:34 GMT -5
As long as you specify the exact condition to trigger the contingent spell, I think that this falls within legal actions.
Good idea, using rage and tenser's at the same time, though I don't much care for tenser' - a caster with 10 STR going up to 14 is not that big of a deal, and you're still basically naked without armor, even with the +4 natural (which won't stack with an amulet). But there are worse ideas, that is for sure, and if it works for you and is fun, then rock on in my opinion..
EIDT - note that the bonus to STR, DEX, and CON is enhancement not morale, so no boosting items or buffing spells like Bull's, Cat's or Bear's will help further.
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Post by grond on Aug 22, 2009 14:20:46 GMT -5
But it is all of those spells in one shot, plus an increased attack bonus. Besides, along with mage armor and shield it is almost like being full plate while basically being naked. My thought is to add enlarge person to the list giving you a size, morale and enhancement bonus all at once. Manage this with an Orc (only needs a 16 charisma to make it all work) and you have racial bonus also. Starting with a 10, you're up to 22 at the end of it all. I know, why do that when 2 cleric spells leave you better off (Righteous Might, Divine Power) at 24 with a little DR to boot. Multiclass in barbarian and you can be at 28 for level 10
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