Are the words "love" and "friendship" just words?

[Lady Winter Wolf]

Definition of Friendship: Friendship is the comfort, the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person having neither to weigh thoughts nor measure words, but pouring all right out just as they are, chaff and grain together, certain that a faithful friendly hand will take and sift them, keep what is worth keeping and, with a breath of comfort, blow the rest away.

Definition of Love: Love is a deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, or a recognition of attractive.


Since I am older than most of you, I have to say that, over the years, I have seen the meanings of these two words change. Change from a deep meaning to something that is casually thrown about. I believe access to people all over the world has done much to change these meanings. I don't know how often I have been nice and just said "welcome" to someone just joining a forum, and suddenly, this person is claiming to be one of my good friends. I've never met the person, don't know what they look like, have never spoken to them; yet, they are now my best friend because I acknowledged their existence and said a simple "hello". I was even stalked by a female psycho for over two years because she told people I was her best friend, and when I denied it, she went ballistic. Never met the person, didn't know her from a hole in the wall...how in the world could we be friends when all I did was say "hi" on an introduction thread?

The same with "love". I love my son; I love, and am in love, with my husband: I love my best friend; but this is a love that has developed over time. I have experienced things with these people at a very deep level, and the attachments and emotions have made a solid bond. Yet, it is not unusual to have someone pm or email me with claims of everlasting love because they believe my avatar ensures them that we are destined to be soul mates. Say what??!!?? I don't appreciate anyone trying to tell me that my husband is not who I should be with, and that they intend to show that they are my true love. Riiiiight.

The words "friendship" and "love" seem to have lost their deeper meaning, and have just become words that can be bandied about unlike simple words such as "nice", "sweet", "hun", "homegirl" or "homie". Simple terms with no real meaning anymore.

[MjolnirH]

those words only have a true meaning if they mean something to YOU, for example when Kaber says "I love you" (pardon me a moment ) what does it means to you. He knows that when he says it he means it, by the same token when you hear it it also has meaning to you.

when some random attention deprived person that has an infatuation with a picture you use online that you don't even know says it and it feels empty and meaningless because when they say it it has no meaning for you.

[soodowyvern]

LWW ...

I too have noticed the change in the means of those words. I guess that is partly why I have very few "friends" and no "love". Yes I do have "love" for others (i.e.: parents and family members) but not that one romantic love ... yet (that will happen when it happens).

As for those I call "friend", it's an earned title. Which I do not give out freely. The places were "friend" is freely used, I think the word "acquaintance" would be more appropriate. Which is the title that most people I know have in my book. There are those few that have earned the title of friend and that only happened within the past 6 years. Now that I think about it, it boils down to 1 new friend a year for the past 6 years.

LWW ... I am guessing someone had questioned your choice for a husband. < wings unfurl, chest swells, neck arches, spikes on neck stand up, head lower, smoke snorted from nostrils > If you would like a friend to address this, just step aside and let me threw. Then again, I am sure you have things under control and your husband and best friend would have first crack at this person if you were unable to handle the situation. < goes back to a relaxed position >

Again, I agree that the meaning of "friendship" and "love" have changed over the years. Personally, I am honored to have your friendship and able to call you friend.

[soodowyvern]

admin said:

those words only have a true meaning if they mean something to YOU, for example when Kaber says "I love you" (pardon me a moment ) what does it means to you. He knows that when he says it he means it, by the same token when you hear it it also has meaning to you.

when some random attention deprived person that has an infatuation with a picture you use on line that you don't even know says it and it feels empty and meaningless because when they say it it has no meaning for you.

MH ... Yes it depends on who is saying the words and to who they are being said. As in your example (Kaber and yourself), not only is Kaber her husband, but he is also her friend. As you are her best friend. So her to two friends joking or expressing there feelings toward each other, she is not feeling threaten, but make her happy. But when internet acquaintance are making those comments, it become "weird" and almost threatening, so she will protect those she loves and call friend.

That is my interpretation of LWW and her personality since I have gotten to know her. Which actually I believe is the point she is trying to make. People that don't truely know her, are calling her a friend and professing their love to her. That is unsettling and all most offensive.

[grond]

Love is an odd one like that, so tied up with expectation, anticipation and so often and so sadly condemnation. People are weird with their emotions and the words attached to them become weird. Personally, I don't always think that the meaning has been lost, but rather perverted.
As to friends, I prefer to keep that one as a loose easy term. I have a lot of friends. I wouldn't trust half of them with anything, but they keep me diverted and I like them for that. I don't personally really want that first definition of a friend, so I guess I wouldn't have noticed a change from that meaning.

[Rincewind]

I think a lot of scholars agree that "friend" doesn't mean quite what it used to these days. It's usually used more to mean an associate with whom you have good relations. And I rather see why, it's like grade inflation but for the word friend. Most people don't have any friends in the old sense, or have a few. It's far more ego-buffing to say one has lots of friends and include all the friendly acquaintances.

I don't think Love has really changed that much, though. Some people are just nuts.

[grond]

Ego buffing? Doesn't really work, at least not so far.

[Lady Winter Wolf]

(((James))) Good dragon.

I've come up with this subject due to a lot of thinking (didn't you see all the smoke ). Since Kaber and I will be moving within the next year or so, I've been thinking about the past few years and how events and relationships have developed. Who will miss us, who will we miss, and who we're glad to have gotten out of our lives already. People who we thought were friends, and turned out to be much less than an acquaintance when their true motives were revealed. Those people who have become good friends, and their actions show they know the meaning of the word. Then there is you James, who became like a son to me...damn you for bringing out my maternal instincts.

Then there were those people who decided "it isn't fair" that Kaber and I are very happily together.
People we knew when we weren't together yet, and only relied on us to relieve their own misery. Once Kaber and I came together though, we were looked upon as "traitors" to the misery club. Into that club belongs those who tried to control us when we were alone, but became vicious when we went against them as a team.

I can count on one hand those I consider to be real friends. Others are acquaintances with common interests; of course I have identified those who are friendly with me, and have latched on because they see a potential for what they think I can do for them. Won't they be surprised when I leave them in a dust trail.


MH, I understand your point of view regarding meaning behind the words. While a faceless person claiming friendship or love for me may not mean a thing to me; it might mean something important to them, and if I don't respond the way they want...that is where trouble may begin. Ok, they don't have much personal stuff on me, but you never know. There was one guy at a forum who googled my LWW name, found my description at Meetup.com. Now I don't know why he would do this, but he also looked at a woman's description that was listed above mine. She put lots of personal info, and he then pm's me and says we are one in the same person, and he is going to contact my employer and tell them about my LWW alter ego if I don't get with him. Now MH, this woman lived in Virginia, worked in a hospital, and the only thing she and I had in common was an interest in ghost hunting; yet this nutjob is ready to ruin her life because he believes she is me, and I have refused his advances.

How a person perceives the meaning of the words friend and love could be the meaning between life and death; depending on how rational the person's mind is. Extreme statement, but is it an unlikely scenario?


I hope I'm being clear with what I'm trying to talk about here; it's harder to write down the words I'm thinking, then to actually talk them out loud.

[soodowyvern]

(walks in a circle and then lies down. tucking head in and wrapping tail around) ;D

LWW ...

Kaber and yourself are planning on moving and if I am interpreting you post correctly, the move is not just going to be across town type of move. Sounds like you're moving out of the county or even out of state. I know I will miss you and I am sure it's going to be the best thing for the family (Kaber, your son and yourself = family).

Grond & Rincewind

I can see both points of views on the meanings of friendship and love. As well as MH's point of view. I know it's seems like I am going to simplify things, but it seems to comes down to personal interpretation and personal meanings. It's what value you hold on each of those words. But I get the sense that "love" in general holds a deeper and more meaningful definition and is not used lightly among most. Then again there are those extreme nut cases that LWW has referred to that can make things potentially dangerous and not for the intended person.

[grond]

Well, remember, for the nutcases "love" is not being used lightly at all. They are ready to destroy someone over it, some of them are even aware that they are destroying themselves over it.
For everyone who can't understand what it is like to be a nutcase (not confessing to being one myself, so don't go there) try for a minute to imagine that you don't matter. At all. To anyone. No remaining family, no friends, no one to rely on, no one who relies on you. That is a cold and horrible world, akin to walking through pelting rain at night, where all you can see is the light in other people's windows. That brief glimpse into a dry world. Every day. Your mind may begin to reach out and feel like it should be connected to those other people. It screams out for attention, and no one answers, no one can hear. Eventually you snap. All you need to do is open that door and walk in, that's all. This is the point where people cross the line and become frightening.
Of course, that's really more like what a normal person who's been pushed out would feel. Some people have troubles from the start, and who knows what their worlds are like.

[Tai Shar Shaidar]

I’ve actually had this conversation before with some of the people I went to college with in Texas. I’ve always been a person with few friends, I have a lot of acquaintances, (then again who doesn’t) and I’d like to believe that the word friendship means something to most people. But the evidence to the contrary is enormous, my sister has literally hundreds of people that she talks to on line and that she considers friends. Now I know that some people have many more friends then I do, but I find it unlikely that anyone has the time to get to know hundreds of people well enough to call them a friend. Will these ‘friends’ go out of their way to help my sister if she is in trouble? No… Could they even? Again no, well over 90% of them don’t even know her real name let alone where she lives. I couldn’t in good conscience call someone I don’t trust with my name a friend. But everyday my sister does, I doubt I’ll ever understand that.

As to the topic of love, I love my family very much I’d die for anyone of them in a hear beat. That is my definition of love, when you want the best for someone regardless of it affect on you. That is the reason that I have only ever told 2 women that I loved them, one of which I had known since 1st grade. We were very good friends for 3 years before I asked her out we spent almost every day together for those three years. She probably knew me better than just about anyone except my (possibly) brother. When that relationship ended I was devastated, she severed all communication with me I haven’t talked to her in 7 years and I still think about her on occasion and I still wish her the best. True love overcomes anything, even a betrayal. But I believe that LWW is right love like that is rare in this day and age, and in place of it is a much more shallow emotion. People still call it love; they still believe themselves to be in love. But at least by my definition they aren’t much more then acquaintances. I’m not even sure you can all most relationships between people today friendships let alone love, or soul mates.

Sorry I didn’t start out to write a book, and this one has been rather rambling but I believer that you can get my meaning. I guess this topic is more important to me then I believed…

-Justin

[lillithonyx]

Oh, my, my, my...

Friendship....This actually is more sacred to me than "love". I have very very few true friends. Less than 10. And I'm OLD. Well, at least older than most of you. My true friends have lasted through my lifetime. For me, there is more 'love' in true friendship than what is expected in familial relationships.

I have many acquaintances. And I like them. But they are not in my life as 'friends'. ok..let's see..

My definition of a true friend:

1) You accept each other unconditionally - no matter what foibles, mistakes, tough 'life patches' that each other goes through.

2) The friendship does not depend upon economical, social status, or physical appearance.

3) True friendship will allow each other to argue with no anger/hatred. And there is NO grudges kept at all.

4) True friends forgive AND FORGET.

5) True friends give and give and give. And true friends must learn to receive and receive and receive, if they need to.

6) True friends always give their shoulder when needed and are not afraid to collapse against a strong shoulder when needed.

7) True friends do not judge - EVER.

And Ya' know what? I think I just described a 'loving' relationship between 'partners'.

Maybe I do understand love, after all.

[Lady Winter Wolf]

Whoa Lil, that sounds so much like the relationship between Kaber and myself....well, we did start out as friends, and ended up as lovers.

[Lady Winter Wolf]

Another example of "I wanna be your friend, even though I have no idea who you are". I keep receiving invites to be someone's friend at Yahoo 360. First off, I keep forgetting about that Yahoo feature, so don't frequent it. Second, most of the invites say, "I saw your profile while looking around, and want to add you to my friends list.".

Why?

I click on the person's image to get their information; no interests in common for the most part, he/she doesn't live anywhere nearby. I don't know them from a hole in the wall, so why do they need to have me on their friends list?

[grond]

Well, not to offer too much wisdom and insight as I feel myself in a deficit at the moment but, it could always be an example of someone reaching out. An attempt to meet new people, or see new points of view. Sometimes civility is best characterized by the expression "Let's be friends". It isn't always such a reprehensible approach, even if it isn't meant in full earnest. Although, the last time I answered the door when a stranger rang, I had a knife in the other hand, so maybe I'm not the one to preach on outgoing behavior.