LGG3 4/08

[Dmitri]

Just making sure that this is on the 3rd Sunday like usual, 4-20-08...

[Tomas]

Guys,

I am working up the division of the loot from the TofH. We did quite well monetarily. Not sure about magic yet. We need to get a lot identified.

We are looking at a bit more than 5000gp each from treasure.

Tom/Ungrim

[Rincewind]

OK, I'm blanking due to lack of sleep- where did we end up after last time?

[Dmitri]

we fought stuff in the arena, left the crazy anti-arcane city, saw some hot chicks in a pond, and are now on a black road, one of the lay line thingies I think traveling...

Dunno, all Francis remembers is the hot naked chicks in the water... damn 1's on saves...

[Tomas]

We are waiting out the day outside one of the large "block" forts. We are planning on going northward on the lay line to the Wizards City.

Tom

[Dmitri]

yea, tomas is right - we are getting ready to jump on the road, we haven't yet.

good catch!

[Rincewind]

A reminder for the spellcasters- please make sure you know the exact details of what your spells do. I took a good reading of Ray of Clumsiness and all the similar stat-reducing spells, and virtually all of them say "cannot reduce the score below 1." So it doesn't appear to be quite as easy to incapacitate creatures as you may have thought. OK, just things for you to keep in mind.

Man, whenever you guys agree to share your trove with the new mage, he'll be sitting pretty. I know you've got a scroll of Permamency, among other things. If you haven't sold 'em by now.

[Dmitri]

Yea, I caught the part about the ray of clumsiness not dropping them below 1 dex, but the phantasmal assailant says nothing about that, so I figured it was OK.

Maybe I read it wrong, if so I apologize, but let me know, so I can plan accordingly. Either way, adjudicate as you see fit, but if you could let me know what is going on their it would be great.

Thanks, Rince. See ya next time!

[Rincewind]

Well, considering that most of the higher level spells will say they can't be used to take the score below 1, I think that putting that caveat on a second level spell is pretty reasonable. One example would be Greater Bestow Curse, a 7th or 8th level spell, which won't allow you to take it below 1. I think it was more an oversight in the rules than anything else that made them neglect that for the phantasmal assailant. Just assume the "can only reduce it to 1" applies to any spell until further notice or if it specifically says otherwise- that seems to be the spirit of the rules.

One more thing to take into account: p. 172 of the PHB, Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: "In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies. For example, if a character takes a -4 penalty to Strength from a ray of enfeeblement spell and then receives a second ray of enfeeblement spell that applies a -6 penalty, he or she takes only the -6 penalty."

I'm not sure yet if all the various penalties from DIFFERENT spells should stack, but it's pretty clear that you can't Ray of Clumsiness twice to get the dex really far down. This is one of those rather tricky rules situations that you're not likely to notice. For now, all the different spells having same effects will stack, unless it becomes abusive. I'm not big on the idea that most stat buffs won't stack but stat debuffs will.

Alright, just some things to keep in mind here. Later!

[Tomas]

We were careful about using different debuff "damage" types. The Clumieness and the Phantasmal thingy did different types of "damage" Ungrim was dealing level damage.

Tom

[Rincewind]

Actually, both the Ray of Clumsiness and the Phantasmal Assailant did Dex damage. They are different spells, but have similar effects on dexterity. Anyway, for now that's OK, but don't get too twinky on it, and remember they're not getting a score under 1 unless they specifically say they can.

Not that you guys would really want things to be that easy- because spellcasting monsters would know about it too, hm?

[Dmitri]

If i remember correctly, RoC is a "penalty" and PhantAssail is "damage". I was under the impression that different types of debuffs or buffs stacked - ie. +2 enhancement bonus to AC, +2 deflection, +2 nat armor, +2 sacred, +2 dodge = +10 total to AC. Likewise, stat damage is different than stat drain is different than stat penalty, so -6 penalty, -4 damage = -10 total stat... maybe I read it wrong or misunderstood it.

If so, don't let Grond read this - his hydra died from a very similar combo...

But no biggie - it did seem a little yeep as a matter of fact. Hell, if I can drain it to 1, it works for me! And if we have a Permanency scroll, I'd really like to get my hands on it... though as the new guy in the group I may have to buy it with my share of the dragon loot.

If anyone has a full list of the crap we have floating around, could it get posted? Not the claimed stuff, just the random loot. As for IDing things, I have the spell and 18 pearls left on me... though I think my greedy little roguish/wizzy dude might want some compensation for the monetary outlay...

[Rincewind]

This is true- but they didn't really define what they meant by a "Penalty". I was thinking that might be the reason they didn't care about the score going under 1- perhaps a penalty to a score is a different sort of thing than it being drained/damaged. Unfortunately there wasn't any errata on it.

One thing I thing, though- when one spell doesn't let its effects take something under 1, when it is stacked with another spell, presumably the "don't let it get under 1" effect still applies. So the damage from the one that specifically doesn't allow it drained that far would be reduced so that the score isn't drained that far. *shrug*.

Eh, like I said, badly defined rules. It's easiest for us to assume that you can't get something under 1 unless it says otherwise. And Dragonsrule- sorry about draining your Str to nothing a while back, I wasn't sure on the rules myself, heh.

[Dragonsrule]

You just owe me one now, big time. I was reading and said "hey but freakin bug was allowed to drain my str to 0" . I knew I was being, taken to the cleaners.

[Dmitri]

are you sure that the big bugs aren't allowed to drain to 0? I mean, stat damage from poison stacks like that. and the drain of a shadow can take you down that far...