Ability score generation?

[Steve]

The tank is definitely impressive, but I think Hank and Croghan (my bearman) both have HP tanking pretty well covered, although my AC is horrible and there's not much I can (or want to) do about it. We don't really have a dedicated support caster, since Johann is, by Kevin's own description, healing and attack, and Ungrim is pure damage, so I think that's probably your best option.

[Dmitri]

I like em both, though the caster is designed to deal damage too. I sent both in to Tyler, just to make sure that the non-core stuff was OK (like the PrC for the bard, and a few feats for him too, and the feats from Races of Stone like Optimize Heavy Armor and Titan Fighting). Still pondering it...

The fighter guy has a few ranks in ride... but Steve, I can't say that I really want to mount you. ;D

Anyway, I think it would be difficult to manage, given the whole saddle issue. But I like the thought. I figured if we are traveling together, either character makes a good fit for the group with either "1 damage dealer, 1 rogue/caster, 1 talker/caster" or "1 damage dealer, 1 rogue/caster, 1 tank".

[Dragonsrule]

I like the Bard, extra healing will always be good. Plus the buffs, however small will help.

[Dmitri]

Well, if you want a lot of healing, I am gonna need sticks or something - bards don't get that many spells. Sample spell selection follows:

Spell Selection:

Spells known by level:

Cantrips – 6
1st – 4 + 1 spell secret = 5
2nd – 4 +1 spell secret = 5
3rd – 4 +1 spell secret = 5
4th – 3 + 1 spell secret = 4

Spells per day:

Cantrips – 3
1st – 3 + 1 CHA + 1 PrC bonus = 5
2nd – 3 + 1 CHA + 1 PrC bonus = 5
3rd – 3 + 1 CHA + 1 PrC bonus = 5
4th – 2 + 1 CHA + 1 PrC bonus = 4

Specific spells known:

Cantrips: prestidigitation, detect magic, read magic, light, mage hand, summon instrument
Level 1: grease, inspirational boost, cure light wounds, comprehend languages, enlarge person
Level 2: mirror image, battle hymn, blur, cure moderate wounds, wraithstrike
Level 3: displacement, glibness, haste, major image, mass snake’s swiftness
Level 4: shadow conjuration, greater invisibility, cure critical wounds, black tentacles

Not set in stone or anything. Thinking about dropping Cure Mod at level 2 in favor of Alter Self, and still not sure if it is worth it to take Enlarge Person as a spell known - but with the difficulty of grabbing wands in this world, I probably should. Otherwise I would just throw it on a wand, too. Ispirational Boost is cool, raises the bonus for Inspire Courage by +1. Add a Badge of Valor and I am actually higher than a Bard of equivalent level without the Lyric Thaumaturge levels. Battle Hymn allows players to reroll will saves... might be handy given our luck. Shadow Conjuration is a no brainer - gives access to all conjurations below 4th level. Snake's Swiftness lets everyone else take an attack (melee only, I think, I need to check again) on my turn. Kinda nice if everyone gets into position before I do.

Question - Wraithstrike or Truestrike?

Both are self only. Wraithstrike is a swift action, and makes attacks resolve as melee touch. True Strike is a standard action and adds +20 to attack roll on next round. Both are made for Power Attacking like a fiend. Wraithstrike is LVL 2, while Truestrike is LVL 1. Just looking for opinions.

Anyway, other good bard spell suggestions are always welcome. Still not sure about playing this guy, but still thinking about it.

[Tomas]

As long as we are talking about spell selection. Ungrim gets a 4th, 5th, 6th level spell known.

For the 4th I am taking Dimension Door.

Dunno about 5th and 6th. He currently has...

Break Enchantment and Cone of Cold for 5th level.

Disintegrate for 6th level.

PHB spells only for suggestions.

Tom

[Dmitri]

For 5th, I like the following...

Baleful Polymorph (just really cool... there may be better spells, but few as flavorful)
Overland Flight (travel is good)
Hold Monster (if it can't move, that is good)
Teleport (man, that would be sweet, but the miss chance is annoying and waiting for Greater might be better)

but my favorite is... Shadow Evocation. Talk about serious freaking flexibility! Ditto for the level down, which has Shadow Conjuration. Now that is a way to expand your spell list rapidly...

For 6th, I like...

Freezing Sphere (nice blast on a 10 foot radius)
Forceful Hand (another just fun spell)
Greater Dispel (what enemy spell effects?)

but my favorite is... Acid Fog. All the goodness of Solid Fog, with acid damage. Great for crowd control, but maybe the blast or something fits Ungrim better.

[Steve]

You want spells you take to be as versatile as possible as a sorcerer. Core-only limits my munchkin database significantly, but...
5th:
Wall of Force - fantastic spell, great for battlefield control and completely impenetrable. Not a blasting spell, but nonetheless extremely useful.
Permanency - Very useful for Wow, I'm not paying attention. This spell is the domain of wizards and scrolls.
Shadow Evocation - Very useful for nondamaging evocations, but losing 80% of your damage before the spell's normal saves is a pretty painful result of a will save. Light spells, Resilient Sphere, etc are all great uses of this spell.

6th:
Antimagic Field - Do I really need to say anything?
Greater Dispel - Definitely an excellent choice.
Greater Heroism - Excellent buff spell, although not very blastery.

Great ideas so far.

As for me, I've found a very, very fun synergy between my bear's feats.
I have the following feat:

Knockback: If you hit while using the Power Attack feat, you can make a free bull rush attempt against the foe you hit, applying the number by which you reduced your attack roll as a bonus on the opposed Strength check (as well as on the damage you deal). Unlike standard bull rush attempts, knockback attempts don't provoke attacks of opportunity, and you don't move with the enemy you knock backward.

Pretty awesome on its own, I know.
But then I have this ability, from my Combat Brute feat.

Advancing Blows: To use this maneuver, you must make a successful bull rush against a foe. During the next round, all your attacks against that foe gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage for every square the foe was pushed back.

So every time I hit with a power attack, I send my foes flying back and deal increased damage based on how far back they fly.
Sure, we face mostly Large and Huge monsters, but my bull rush modifier is +19. Not including that bonus from Knockback.

Oh, also, since I get to charge after my opponents rocket away from me...

Momentum Swing: To use this maneuver, you must charge a foe in the first round, and you must make an attack using your Power Attack feat in the second round. The penalty you take on your attack roll must be -5 or worse. Your attacks during the second round gain a bonus equal to your attack roll penalty x 1.5 or x 3 if you're using a two-handed weapon.

EDIT: Hey, Tyler, can I use Power Attack on an Attack of Opportunity? Because if so I may have just rendered myself unchargeable by anything my size or smaller.

[Dmitri]

Steve seems generally spot on with alot of his ideas, but remember that tactics are not the strong suit of our group... hence why I am not trying to resurrect the battlefield control wizzy I had for a while. Wall of Force is pretty cool, though.

Also, don't forget that the Heroism line of spells are the same bonuses as the Inspire Courage bardic music effect. Hence, they don't stack. Seeing that basically, after all is said and done, I will be able to use bardic music 12x per day... might not be a good investment. I am going all buffs and stuff with my bard, maybe one or two controls, like Evard's Tentacles.

[Tomas]

You "turn on"Power Attack at the beginning of your turn and it remains in effect until the beginning of your next turn. Thus if it is "On" you must use it during an AoO. If it is not "On" you may not use it during an AoO.

Tom

[grond]

Dmitri, as far as tanks go, if hank ever should suffer the unthinkable, I will be making a small sized (halfling probably) mounted character who will have a 30 something, or higher AC. I plan on using leadership to attract a some sort of advanced creature as a mount (nothing ridiculous, just some more HP/ a few abilities). Why small? A medium mount is as good at dungeon crawl life as a medium creature, that's why.
So, if tanking seems to missing, engineer Hank's demise and I will fill in that gap. I say go for the bard build.

[Dmitri]

OK, so doing a bard build. Will kick around a few ideas here.

Already built one caster, maybe build an archer-bard and a few other ideas like the Warchanter PrC or a Sublime Chord or something.

Kick em around, and advice is always welcome or ideas, though I am NOT going to use some kind of cheese like BoED "Words of Creation" or something... saw it, thought about it, rejected it.

No matter what I do, I want to be able to do some singing, and at least have some small combat potential.

[Steve]

Keep in mind that bardic music just requires a perform check, not necessarily a perform(sing) check. I have always wanted to make a bard using Perform(Breakdance).

[Dmitri]

Peform (Breakdance)... very nice, Steve-O!

But really, you have to do something that makes sense. I mean, attacking while spinning on my head might sound kind of badass, but seems a little hard to justify.

Here are my thoughts for now.

1) Bard 12

Idea is simple. Lots of bard levels, beef up Inspire Courage with stuff like Song of the Heart and Inspirational Boost, sing, and bust out a Crystal Echoblade and go two handed at the baddy like a mofo with Power Attack - Echoblade adds half of bard level as sonic damage. A few buffs would be handy since it gives me a different option than whooping the big nasty. Even thought about something like Snowflake Wardance, to add CHA to hit (not damage) though the one handed issue is tough - I was planning on twohanding the sword.

2) Bard 6/War Chanter 6

A little more complex. Good songs, best BAB, good fort save, but NO CASTING PROGRESSION. But, the bard is not a killer caster. A couple of 2nd level spells is as good as it gets. Two less than great feats for me (Weapon Focus and Expertise) but I like combining songs - actually playing the singer, instead of the caster. Still two handing the Echoblade, though not as important now, because it functions on bard levels, not character levels.

3) Bard 10/Sublime Chord 2

Not sure about his one. Not really a combat bard, but picks up more casting and greater variety. But I am not really into this one as much. And I refuse to use broken ideas with Sublime Chord - just not even going there.

[Dmitri]

After looking over the 12 level Bard, I think that I will either run with the Chanter or the Thaumaturge builds... just don't get enough to not take the PrC...

[grond]

While we are talking about ideas for characters, and reviewing options, I'd like some advice or feedback on my few ideas for building a good tanking character (the bear warrior really tends to outstrip most combat characters for damage, so I won't even try to make a heavy hitter).
I plan on making a small sized mounted combat character, since the ride skill lets you take advantage of cover as a seemingly immediate action. My initial thought is obviously a straight fighter, heavy armor, expertise and a heavy shield, or tower shield and a lance, since it is one handed while mounted, and offers reach. The character in this instance would almost definitely be a gnome for the constitution bonus. His AC would be somewhere between 25 and 34 without magic items (but with a collective -7 penalty on attacks) (note, with proficiency, armor check penalty does not apply to the ride skill) He would use lance while mounted and bastard sword while dismounted.

The other approach is a pure barbarian, also mounted also small. This gives me fewer feats, better attack bonuses and better average damage, since odds are good that a spirited charge could only really be done once every other round for the fighter build. The barbarian would require mithral fullplate (thus requiring DM approval) but would have and AC between 24 and 28 without magic gear. He would also have DR 2/- and 4 greater rages per day. Likely, this character would be a halfling, for the boost to dexterity, since mithral fullplate allows for up to +3 dex to AC and has a check penalty of only 3 (good stuff right?)

Either of the above methods would use leadership, in the hopes of a attracting a DM approved mount that is a little more durable than a riding dog.

Finally, there is the ranger option, gnome ranger to be specific. This version has low AC, but would be a horseback (or whatever he rides) archer and can probably make a decent showing of backup damage, as well as having a few meager spells.

All of this is not to say that I will be killing Hank, but rather that he will become increasingly reckless as time goes by, likely resulting in his death. After all, he has a competitive streak, and he'll be competing with a freakin bear warrior.
Any insight will be greatly appreciated.