2007/2008 elections

[Rincewind]

I think the thing to remember is that the president's poll numbers have been in the 30's for a while now- and if you have a candidate who supports the president, that doesn't bode well for his poll numbers in an upcoming election. Hence the difficulties McCain may have soon.

It should be an interesting election, anyway. With the Democrats having no clear majority right now, there's a very good chance they'll be stumping in PA, since we've got a good amount of electoral votes and by April they won't have anything better to do (we're the only one in April). With McCain having such a big majority, he might not stump here very much- we'll see.

I'd count on Obama and McCain to have a civil debate and election. I think we've been seeing what sort of campaign Hillary would run- or rather, what she would have Bill run for her. It's amazing how much Bill Clinton, the most popular president among blacks ever, has managed to alienate them- I read that about 90% of black voters went for Obama, and they used to be split 50/50 between him and Hillary. If nothing else, I'd like Obama to get the Democratic nomination simply to avoid months on months of various Republican lobbying groups rehashing the 1990's. Ugh.

Edit: Reading updated news info, they're predicting that Obama and Hillary are basically tied, while McCain is 2/3 of the way towards having more than 50% of the Republican delegates. If he gets many more wins, he won't even need to come to PA- it'll be a done deed by then. But the Democrats will definately need to come here. I was tempted to change affiliations just because I'd rather vote in the more interesting primary, heh.

Also, I find it very funny that Dmitri is most mad at Bush for No Child Left Behind, seeing as it may be the achievement Bush is most proud of- he even mentioned it in his State of the Union address as one of his highlights.

[Antioch]

Almost everyone is mad about No Child Left Behind. My sister, her husband, and my ex are all teachers. It's a good idea, but the realization is so flawed that it's actually counterproductive. Some interesting facts you might not know about the program.

My sister teaches special education - life skills. Her kids are severely mentally and physically challenged and are being taught the basic skills of life instead of more traditional schooling (how to get and hold a job, shopping, cooking, laundry, so forth). She teaches at a middle school so all of her students must sit for and take middle school level standardized testing. That's right, kids that can't even spell their own names in some cases have to sit and fill in the bubbles of a standardized test for their age group. You can imagine the unneeded stress this puts on both student and teacher. But we don't want any child left behind and need to "monitor" their progress. A certain state rep who "surprisingly" did not get reelected actually wanted to tie a teacher's wage to their student's scores. My sister would instantly lose her job and forget about getting inner city teachers of any calibre.

Most teachers in the elementary school where my ex teaches do not teach Social Studies or Science. You see, they don't test for those and they are given 1/3 of the time to teach them anyways. So, we have an entire generation of students that are focusing on math and english with no formal science or social studies until they reach middle school. How sad. At least their standardized scores are good and they weren't "left behind". What a disservice to our young.

I think it is really sad that he is most proud of an education bill that he totally ignored the Department of Education in making, which they have never once supported (the implimentation, not the concept), and is wasting tons of taxpayer dollars for short sighted results.

[Dmitri]

Yea, I can dig the war to a point, though not for the same reasons that others do (bring on Realpolitik, baby!), I like Reaganomics (the 80's weren't all bad, and JFK used em too!), but NCLB drives me batty. See Antioch's post for some of the issues I have with it.

**Student to teacher**
"I was hoping we could, you know, maybe use some of what we are learning here... maybe write a poem for English, or work on a project in Science Lab, or..."

**Teacher to student**
"Sorry, Annie, we have to do PSSA prep work today - no real learning here!"

And just a statistics issue...

Anyone ever stop to think that a percentile based test is designed so that 50% are always below the median by the definition of the test itself? So half will ALWAYS fail?

[Rincewind]

Wow, big stuff here- Romney dropped out of the race. This makes the Republican race basically between McCain and Huckabee, and Huckabee doesn't really have a chance there. I was a bit surprised Romney would throw in the towel now, but I guess he knows when he's beat- McCain had almost 3x the delegates he did. This means the only really interesting race will be the Democrats, unless Huckabee gets a miracle- he'd need to get pretty much all the remaining delegates. Unfortunately, this probably means that the Republicans will ignore PA, but at least we'll get to see the Democrats canvassing- they're so closely tied they'll be desperate.

Oh, out of curiosity- who are you rooting for now, everyone?

[Antioch]

Yeah, I saw last night that Mitt ceased his campaign and gave a very large backing to McCain. I favor McCain right now. I'm not 100% sold yet, but that's where I'm leaning. I haven't liked Hillary for a very long time and think she's a snake. I fear her getting into office.

[Rincewind]

Aye, but Democratically it's close enough that if there's not a big winner in the remaining states it'll go to convention and the Superdelegates will decide the candidate- and I think that means Hillary will get the nomination, as she is better at party control/manipulation. Eh, we'll see.

[Dragonsrule]

McCain will be the nominee, Huckabee can't catch him. What makes it interesting is that if Huckabee would have dropped out, before Super Tuesday (he was showing the poorest), then Romney may actually have been able to pass McCain.

McCain wins the nomination, due to the fact that the "powerful" Evangelical right could not get behind either of them. By splitting that vote it gave McCain the win.

I think its funny, that before Super Tuesday, I asked my brother if he was ready for McCain to be his candidate. Of course he gave me the comment I thought he would. He goes, "If McCain wins then I am NOT VOTING in November. " Naturally he thinks McCain is a Liberal.

As I stated earlier, I am for Obama and will stay with Obama. However if Hillary wins the Nomination and is against McCain, I will vote for McCain. As to the Super Delegates, I don't know if they will get behind Hillary anymore. I know they show her having more than Obama now, but with the Republicans wrapped up, they may see the Hillary, is what they are hoping for. Plus if you look, Obama is winning in the cities and Hillary the rural area. This is the reason he can keep beating her on Delegates and lose the popular vote.

[Antioch]

I think Obama has integrety and he far outshines Hillary because of it. But, I strongly disagree with him on some issues. He wants to revoke the ability to carry a concealed weapon for everyone except cops and military. So, you pretty much couldn't own a hand gun any more because the second it is out of view it is considered concealed and would be illegal. That will never happen without a huge fight.

I believe he's too green and unproven yet too. You'd never pick a rookie to run a company, why pick one to run the country. Regardless of how much talent they have, that is not a good choice. That's why people like him though...he hasn't been in long enough to be corrupted is what I hear people saying to reason away the lack of experience.

[pigdish]

The Daily Show had a funny bit on Romney last night. It's amazing to me that Romney has so much that he can drop $35 mil for this. Wow!

I agree that it's a done deal with McCain as the Republican nominee. I totally agree with Antioch about Hillary being a snake and I'll add slime monster to that.

I like McCain to some extent but I am hoping for a Democratic win to keep the balance on the Supreme Court. I'm also hoping that the change will lessen the fear mongering and Nazi-Stalin-like governing that the Bush Regime brought to our great country.

[Antioch]

I'm still wondering what happened to "Fiscal Conservatism". We are blowing money like crazy since Bush came into office.

[Rincewind]

antioch said:

I'm still wondering what happened to "Fiscal Conservatism". We are blowing money like crazy since Bush came into office.

*sigh* True enough, the Republicans haven't been fiscal conservatives for over a quarter century now, but keep telling people they are hoping they'll fall for it.

It's interesting to note that Obama has approximately the same service record (in the same state, even) as a former President, Lincoln. So I'm not sure experience governing is the be-all and end-all of what makes a good leader. Would I prefer if he had more experience? Heck, yes. But actually, in this election, the candidates with the most experience were doing quite badly, if you look. Ah well.

[Dmitri]

Just a few clarifications...

"Naturally he thinks McCain is a Liberal." - Dragonsrule

Actually, none of our candidates in this election are liberals. After much soul searching and reading, I have decided to retake the label liberal for REAL liberals. So take that, you modern political machines! :-)

"I'm also hoping that the change will lessen the fear mongering and Nazi-Stalin-like governing that the Bush Regime brought to our great country. " - Pigdish

Sometimes I wonder if we really understand the analogies we make. Not trying to rip you up, Pigdish, but man - that is like comparing the war in Iraq to WWII. They aren't even remotely close. I mean, not trying to be ridiculous here or anything, but the Nazis killed 6 million over race/ethnicity/sexual orientation, while the policies under Stalin cost the USSR a minimum of 3 million deaths (not couinting the Ukranian faminal genocide - and this number could easily be far higher, as it is based on the declassified documents of the KGB. How many people have we wiped out in the same manner under GWB? These folks weren't even war casualties, they were genocide and political victims. So be careful what kind of hyperbole you use - it just isn't accurate.

[Dmitri]

Oh, and since there is no better candidate for me, I will vote McCain most likely.

But, WAAAAH!!! I WANT A REAL LIBERAL TO VOTE FOR!!!

[pigdish]

I stand by my statement comparing the Bush Regime to Nazi and Stalin. I'm not saying that there is an exact action for action similarity but in the underlying reasons for what they did.

By starting the war, on now overwhelmingly confirmed false pretenses, in Afghanistan and Iraq the blood of every death I put on Bush's hands. It's bad enough to have to fight wars and in the past the USA did it for a noble cause. What Bush did was go to war by lying and manipulating the American people in the worst case. By creating an atmosphere of hatred and of imminent doom the Bush Regime has managed to covertly passed their agenda. Like torturing, covertly monitoring the citizenry, and making themselves rich in the process.

It's the lying and the dark dealings that I equate those three regimes. I see Bush on the same platform of vile people like Hitler, Stalin, and some others. What amazes me is that the spineless Democrats haven't tried to impeach Bush. What will it take to impeach a president if its not taking the country to war on false pretenses and blowing through a several trillion dollars of surplus.

I'm sure I'm not the first one to make this comparison and I'm certain they have made a far better argument than I have.

Anyway, I wanted to ask: Do you think it is possible for the common citizen to become president? It is just so obscene the amount of money that goes into a campaign.

[Rincewind]

pigdish said:

What amazes me is that the spineless Democrats haven't tried to impeach Bush. What will it take to impeach a president if its not taking the country to war on false pretenses and blowing through a several trillion dollars of surplus.

Oh come now, we can't go around impeaching presidents on the basis of silly things like that, we have to wait until he starts fooling around with interns

I think some have tried to start impeachment procedures against Bush, but there's not a majority to support them. Congress is a bit shy of doing that after last time.